Patrick Knowles: What Superyacht Owners Want

Commitment. In a word, this is exactly what superyacht owners want, in the experience of Patrick Knowles.  In fact, as much as every company in the superyacht industry talks about putting owners at the center of what they do, their talk tends to focus on themselves. It's an often inadvertent mistake that can lead to confusion, conflict, and more. That's why Patrick Knowles Designs takes note, literally, of everything that its clients say in every meeting--because even the smallest things can add up to big breakthroughs and ultimately success.

Knowles explains how his team does this, and how trust has taken shape beyond the walls of his clients' yachts, in this episode of Megayacht News Radio.

Knowles has produced award-winning designs for domestic and international clients, many of whom have become longtime collaborators and retained clientele. With beginnings in designing aircraft interiors for private, VIP, and head-of-state sectors, Knowles used his ability to capture and interpret the imagination of the world's most discerning clients to cross over into the luxury yacht market more than three decades ago. Since then, he's worked with numerous shipyards in Europe, the Americas and beyond, collaborating with the likes of Burger Boat Company, Christensen Shipyard, Delta Marine, Feadship, ISA, Palmer Johnson, and more.

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Transcript

(voiceover): 0:50

Welcome to Megayacht News Radio, the first and longest running podcast series dedicated to the large yacht industry, hosted by Diane Byrne, the editor of MegayachtNews.com. We feature conversations with engaging and inspiring people in yachting, from shipyard CEOs, to designers, from yacht managers to young entrepreneurs, and yes, even owners. You'll learn how they got into yachting, how they're building better businesses, and especially how they're helping people like you get more enjoyment out of the yachting lifestyle.

Diane Byrne: 1:42

Welcome, everyone. In all the years that I have spent covering yachting, I've had the pleasure of meeting and speaking with a number of talented designers. So I try to remain impartial. It's a little hard to do that when you truly enjoy every conversation you have with particular people. And for me, those people include today's guest, Patrick Knowles. With more than three decades of experience designing yachts, Patrick has collaborated with all of the major American shipyards like Burger Boat Company and Delta Marine, as well as leading international builders like Feadship. As much as He is a talented professional, and has a terrific team of designers, though, what I appreciate the most about Patrick is that I always learned something new after speaking with him. What I'm really looking forward to today, and certainly you all will appreciate as well, is hearing his take on a pretty simple yet also pretty complex question. That being, what do yacht owners want. And with that, Patrick, welcome to Megayacht News Radio. How are you today?

Patrick Knowles: 2:49

I am doing well, Diane, and my sentiments are exactly the same. It's a joy knowing you over the years. And here it is, we have another wonderful opportunity to interact with each other. Thank you for having me on your show.

Diane Byrne: 3:02

Absolutely. And thank you for the kind words, I appreciate them. So like I said, you and I have known each other and spoken to each other many, many times over the years. So I'm very familiar with your background, but there are people listening who maybe are not so familiar. So for their benefit. How did you get into design? First of all, and how did you get into yacht design?

Patrick Knowles: 3:26

Well, I would say that I've always been in design. And when I say that, when I think about being a kid, I always had a fascination with everything that involves design, whether that was cars, boats, planes, buildings, all of it. And you know, looking back on it now, I do identify and understand what captivated me so much as a child, I didn't know what it was Yale composition, things that are key to designers today. And things like proportion, you know, what does the kid know about proportion. But all of these things, I remember going to the marina with my dad, he was a fisherman and I would see all of the boats that would come in, and I would be analyzing the looks of all these boats. I didn't know the difference between a yacht and a sport fish boat and a cabin crews and that sort of thing. But as a child, I was able to see the difference and analyze them. I just didn't know them by name. So as far as how what how long have I been in design? Or how long have I been interested? From the earliest years that I could remember? Now? How did I get into yacht and that's that's a little bit of a segue. Not too far. One of my brothers, I have six brothers. And one of them, introduced me to an acquaintance of his who actually was involved. He was a German national, and he was involved with an American yacht design company. And I was working in the USS working in Mill mill shop at that time, and really didn't like my job that much. And my big brother asked me, how's it going? And I told him that I wasn't too happy. And he says, Make this phone call. I did and I was hired the next day. So the rest of its history.

Diane Byrne: 5:02

Amazing. So working with design and identifying forms, shapes, etc, is one thing. Working with people is quite a different thing when they bring their own ideas to the table, and sometimes they can't even maybe voice what's in their head. So what do you enjoy the most about working with your yachting clients?

Patrick Knowles: 5:26

Well, it's it's pretty simple, simple. I enjoy the element of the excitement. You know, keeping in mind that for an individual who gets to the point in their life, that they're able to acquire something like a yacht as a pleasure, possession. There's so much excitement wrapped up in it, especially if it's a new owner, meaning They've never owned a yacht before, maybe they've, they've stepped up to a much larger yacht, that that excitement is palpable. And we actually treat that like a wave and we ride it as much as we can. And as you said in your question, or mentioned in your question that they cannot express or articulate, we love it, you know, our job is to listen to them, read them, and weave this material, this this tangible thing that is residing in a very incomprehensible way in their mind. And bringing that to life, putting it on paper, building it, formulating it. Those are very exciting steps along the way. So I would say the element of excitement is my absolute favorite.

Diane Byrne: 6:39

You just said something that is the the perfect setup for something else I wanted to ask you, you said that, it's very important to listen to them, especially when they can't articulate necessarily what's what's in their mind, and basically extract the, you know, the concept from there. Every company in this industry talks about that whole concept of putting the owner at the center of what they do. And I find that oftentimes, the statements from companies tend to focus on the companies themselves, rather than the owners, and what the owners actually want, even if it's an inadvertent step, that that's really what it ends up being. So if you were to sum up in one word, what owners want, what is it? Wow,

Patrick Knowles: 7:33

that's a huge statement to get down into one word, but you know, I, I would have to say it's probably commitment. And commitment is a huge word, we're all familiar with it, and commitment in in many aspects of life. If you don't commit to it, you don't make the commitment, then things really aren't going to come together as well as they should have there been commitment. And when you think about being committed to a project, that commitment will automatically check all the other important boxes, such as satisfaction, good service, loyalty to the clients need, attentiveness, all of these things that clients that are important to clients. So I would settle on that one word for that huge statement, I would say its commitment. For me, it would be commitment.

Diane Byrne: 8:29

It's a good word, because it does sum up a lot of the other elements of working with someone, it's it's letting them know, first and foremost that you want to make sure they're happy that they're heard, right, that their ideas matter. Those are the those are basic human needs, essentially. But it's really important, I think, in what the yachting industry does in this pledge that we make, that we're making their dreams come true.

Patrick Knowles: 8:55

Yes, yes. And hearing a client is very critical. And listening to them, you know, especially when design takes on trends. And trends can become, they can become so captivating, that we we buying into trends in the moment. And sometimes we look back and we think wow, you know, I bought into that. And and sometimes trends can be some momentary. So for us, listening to the client, because if the client is desiring something that's contrary to a trend, we as designers, we need to keep our footing, to be able to, to weather them and to guide them through the power that we as designers are being shown a trend and a direction and design and an industry. And that's not for everyone. And I think for the client to be speak and to be heard and to feel that they have been listened to is monumental.

Diane Byrne: 9:59

Definitely. So when it comes to how you and your team are putting this commitment that the owners want into practice, what is it that you do? What's the first thing that you do? Kind of paint a picture for us as if we were the clients sitting down with you? What would you do with your team? And meeting number one?

Patrick Knowles: 10:22

Okay, well, first of all remain objective. We have to be We must not allow and I know that this is really it's a simple statement, but it's, it's real. And it's very influential in the sense that as creatures of habit and of comfort, we tend to see what is most comfortable and that is most captivating for us as individual notes that when we need a stranger, and the stranger to us, who is now our new client, happily, so they are indeed strangers, and they are expressing desires and wants and needs, in their personal environment that can be quite polar, to what our comfort level is and to what our expectations are. So mostly we must remain objective so that we can hear without bias, what the owner is asking us to do. That's number one. To me, if we do not forward that, or hurdle it, we are only going to be on an uphill battle throughout the project. So that's first and foremost, that's the first thing that we do. And we have to put our wants and personal desires aside. As designers, we shouldn't design for ourselves, it really is for the client. And then we follow that up with what we have as an internal process. It's called a CI, that's a critical items list. And it's a database. And we're very attentive with taking copious notes and following that up with detailed minutes, not only in writing, but pictorial as well, to reflect or to send that back to the owner and saying, Am I understanding you, if I'm not make comment on each line item where I misunderstood you. And that works wonders for us. And in every meeting that we have with every client, in every set of minutes that we produce, whether it's information that we received through those two conduits, or phone calls, or emails or texts, anything that comes out of the clients mouth, that is a directive goes into that CI database, and it's numbered, and dated. And I give you an example, long time ago, we had a client that had made a request early on in the project. And this was early in my career. And this is actually what started the CI or the critical items database. And I thought how am I going to remember that this project is almost three years old, and I battled with that I had to post it on my screen, I had it on my refrigerator, I had it everywhere, because I didn't have the process of what to do with that information. So now we have the process. And it's amazing. When a client makes a specific, very specific request upfront and the names at once in an interview, maybe even say it's sideways, and we catch it and at delivery or later in the project. They're stunned, like, wow, how did you know that? Well, you said it, did I really, and you know, all of that just, it just builds on the client relationship. But we are I am a stickler for documentation and recording everything that is said and making sure that we keep it in its proper sequence. Because we love the element of not surprising the client but pleasing them in a profound way, when we deliver on something that they said that they themselves have forgotten.

Diane Byrne: 14:00

Right, right. You know, it's interesting, because that list, as you as you're sitting here describing it, I was thinking holy cow that could be and probably is for each project, one insanely long list, it's a lot of information, because you're recording every request every thought they are when they say they like a certain color. They like certain shapes and like certain cars, for example, if maybe that's the reference point for the design that they like, whatever it is, that's a lot of information. And that could be information overload. But it's keeping you on track.

Patrick Knowles: 14:40

Yeah, it is. And it could be information overload. And that's what it was doing. And I gave you that example of that one request. And I'm thinking after remember this for like two years. So there were I had stickers everywhere. And it was exhausting. I had nowhere to put it. And as the request came in did become overloaded. Until I figured out I need to develop some sort of mechanism. Again, that was a new one. My design firm. It's specific for us. It works for us. And yeah, it's it's very important. One one project in particular, I don't know if it's the longest di but I do specifically remember it was project p 144. I'm now on project number p 356. That project had over 1900 ci items. I know, I know. It was crazy. It was crazy. But we checked them off and the project was close to four years long when we checked them off. Amazing. That's that's one of the ways of keeping our internal sanity.

Diane Byrne: 15:39

It does make sense to because like you were saying before, it's important to avoid your own internal bias. And I've seen on Fortunately, some situations where whether it's a designer or maybe it's a shipyard that has a semi custom project, and owner will come forward and say that they like it. And there's certain things that they want to do differently. But either they're not being fully listened to, or perhaps the, the, you know, the other party, whether it's the design, or the shipyard isn't quite thinking that they're saying what they're thinking, and they say, oh, yeah, no, they don't really want that they actually want this instead, the way we the way that we've done things for the previous six projects, or what have you. So they end up making a mistake of assumption. And the client isn't really happy, but they can't really articulate why. So these checklists, essentially, what you're creating, of every comment, every request, every conversation eliminates that note, no, no, that's not what they meant. Because you can look back at and say, No, actually, they didn't, if they wanted that, you can actually dive into it a little bit more, even if there's a question in your heads like, do they really want to do this? You could actually go to them and say, you know, you mentioned this, let's talk about a little bit more. Tell me what you mean, tell me what your thoughts are? Yes. And then you can get to the bottom of it.

Patrick Knowles: 17:00

Yes, yes, that's exactly how it works. It's, it's organic, it evolves and sometimes finds make requests. And later on in the project, because we always memorialize the list, right? Whenever we have a client meeting, actually, after this, I have a zoom client meeting on my new 50 meter, we sent the agenda, the agenda is driven by the CI list. So in when it's appropriate, we memorialize certain items on the list when it's time. And inevitably, there are some requests that are made, that the client goes Yes, I remember seeing that. But you know, things have changed a little bit, scrap that or maybe do it this way. What it does is that it keeps an eye on the dashboard. But it also keeps it relevant because we're not breezing it in time. Two years ago, when your boat is delivered two years later, it's it's something that becomes a part of the dialogue, a part of the agenda system, we we always memorialize every item on the CI list at some point. And so it gives the owner that time to reflect and, and things change in life person's personal preferences change. And but it's a wonderful thing to see how even the client evolves in their expectation and what their desire is, for both, you know, some of them my longest project was seven years, you can have a lot of personal preference changes in that time period.

Diane Byrne: 18:30

Oh, absolutely. Lifestyle changes, taste changes, a lot of different things. Absolutely.

Patrick Knowles: 18:36

Yeah, yes, it does.

Diane Byrne: 18:38

So let's talk about that a little bit more this, the way that you're working with the clients over such a long period of time, obviously, not all your projects are seven years long, but the projects are extensive. So you earn a lot of trust from them in the working relationship. And as I understand it, that level of trust actually can go beyond the the so called walls of the yacht into other aspects of their lives. So how has that trust kind of translated into other parts of the owners worlds? Well,

Patrick Knowles: 19:14

that? That's that's a good question. I would say, for to start building on that trust, I would say the foundation of it is reputation. Like the other one answer word that you had asked me in a previous question. I would say that the one answer word in the foundation of the answer is reputation. Having a good track record, having a reputation of being fair, honest, reliable, and also empathetic. And that sounds strange to put in this arena, empathy. in a conference room, you know that the two normally don't go together. But empathy really is important. And I have come to learn that over the years. And to put that in perspective, when you have someone who has a relatively or a massive amount of wealth. You know, everything is relative. And every every person has personal thresholds and limitations. And everyone has financial thresholds and limitations as well doesn't matter how wealthy you are. Engaging in building a yacht is not the sum of your entire wealth, that wealth may be committed through other obligations. So we have to be empathetic when we deal with the owner. We're designing something and it's coming out of budget or maybe it's a little bit too expensive. And the bill or the proposal could be a little bit intense for the owner. I try to put myself in They're as as as diametrically opposed as that is, I tried to put myself in their, their position and, and empathize and see what I could do to help. It's a huge financial undertaking. And to answer your question directly as to how can that translate out of the walls of the yacht door and other aspects of their life. You know, as a yacht designer, my my origins and design, part of it is an aviation. And I've gone through a lot of sectors of design commercial, hospitality, motorcoach, and I settled on yacht and I really liked yacht and but beyond the walls of the yacht, that's when you begin to see where it has affected the owner, because they begin to request you to help him out of the the arena of the marine industry, out of the arena of designing the yacht, maybe it becomes a home, maybe it becomes their personal office, maybe it becomes their aircraft. And that is, to me how that that trust extends beyond the walls of the yacht, they begin to entrust you with even more of their their assets and, and investments. And one quick note is, you know, one of the other joys of working with a yacht is that it's not a primary residence, when you design somebody's primary residence, you're designing the environment that they spend most of their time in. So the approach to it is very different, the demand of it is very different. And the emotion of it is very different. Whereas a yacht, you know, it's a little bit different. And when you get to the point to where they've, you've gained their trust, and now they begin to invite you into their even more intimate and private environments. Now, you know, that that you've done well, to instill trust in them, but it's based upon reputation, the foundation of it is reputation, and all of those other things that I'd said, as far as a good reputation, reliable, honest, and pathetic, that sort of thing. Sorry for the long answer.

Diane Byrne: 23:07

No, no, not at all. It's good. Like I said, in the intro, I always learned something new from you. So this is this is terrific. So one last question for you. You know, we've talked a lot about what I would consider the more experienced clients people who've had a history of yachting. Let's talk at the end of our conversation about people coming into yachting, there are a nice number of people who are stepping into this into the of the world, the 80 foot plus world for the first time. They're certainly a lot different from clients from 10 years ago, 20 years ago, even you could argue, I would say five years ago. So what advice would you give to someone in this new generation who's taking their first step into eon ownership? That's a long.

Patrick Knowles: 24:03

Yeah, it's, it is, but I, I have heard all of your words. And, you know, there's so many things you can impart to someone who's new at something, when you've been doing it for 30 plus years, it's like, where do you start? Right? I would say, probably the most valuable advice that I wouldn't be able to give them is to do research, and to be realistic. Time and money are key components and Yadin. And having a balanced and realistic view of them both will serve an owner well, and having an enjoyable project. And, you know, we your question is steeped not in the traditional, well seasoned long owner, or, or long term owner of yachts, maybe zone 678 10 of them, we're talking about the ones who are new, right? So it's a little bit of a different perspective. And when we think about being realistic, with time and money, you know, particularly it's more about time than it is with money. And you know, society and Commerce has gotten to the point to where the time really is more valuable than the money it always has been. But really to to a skewed capacity. And the money factor will always be there. But the time factors will be what it is they they want it now. And sometimes that could be unrealistic. So when you have someone coming into the industry that's new, to do the research and to understand that maybe what they're they're asking In is a one year project as opposed to a three month project. And going into a one year project with a mentality or the objective that you're going to get this in three months, it's not going to be happy or an enjoyable experience for anyone. So being realistic, helps the the new owner to be able to chart a very enjoyable experience. We've had many, many, many enjoyable experience. I've had many clients who've come back repeatedly, my longest term client who passed away in 2020. We've done like 3536 projects together and you know him well. You've you've been on his boat, and you dined at his table. And, you know, wonderful, wonderful he was my Thurston Howell, the third. And that's an example of the joy that can come from being realistic, and from doing research. So the new yacht owners today could look back on their yacht and ownership career, and count the many of yachts that they've had with joy. It's very expensive. It's a heavy lift, but with joy. And the best way to gain that joy is through research and just keeping a realistic mentality.

Diane Byrne: 27:07

Very well said, absolutely. I could not have said it any better myself. Patrick, it has been an absolute pleasure catching up with you, and having you weigh in on what is really crucial to owners, what really is at the center of everything that they're doing in terms of commissioning and using their yachts, and how their relationships should develop. Like I said in the intro, and even a couple of minutes ago, I always learned something new with you. And I was sitting here reading a whole bunch of notes.

Patrick Knowles: 27:37

That's that's how it's been. It's been sent by audit. And I thank you so very much for being a part of this. Oh, thank

Diane Byrne: 27:44

Thanks for being here. Everybody, to learn more about Patrick and his team, you can visit their website, which is patrickknowlesdesign.com--oh, sorry, patrickknowlesdesigns, plural, right. Almost forgot that, so it's crucial. Thanks, everybody. Until next time, I'm Diane Byrne.

(voiceover): 28:09

That wraps up this episode of Megayacht News Radio. Thanks for listening. If you like what you hear, please share the word on social media and subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Audible iHeartRadio, or Spotify. And of course, to learn more about what's going on in the world of large yacht cruising, new construction, and design, check out our daily updated website, the award winning MegayachtNews.com.